Hey everybody, welcome back to Shutter the Dark Shorts. I'm James Brown, and as always, I'm here with Sunshine. Today, we're talking about something that, honestly, I wish I'd learned a lot earlier in life—listening. Not just hearing, but really listening. Sunshine, you ever catch yourself thinking you’re a good listener, and then realize, uh, maybe not so much?Oh, absolutely, James. I mean, I used to think I was a great listener—especially in church settings, you know, nodding along, smiling. But then, someone would ask me to repeat what they just said, and I’d be like, “Uh… can you say that again?” It’s humbling. And it’s funny, because Greg Atkinson, in one of his articles, talked about how he had to do some deep soul searching after being called out for interrupting people. That hit home for me.Yeah, I read that too. He said he realized he wasn’t intentionally practicing active listening, even though he knew it was important. I think a lot of us fall into that trap, especially in leadership. We get so focused on what we want to say next, or how to fix things, that we forget to just be present and listen. I mean, I’ve been there—at work, at home, even driving the church bus. Sometimes you just want to get your point across, you know?Totally. And it’s not just leaders, right? It’s everywhere. Social media is a big one. Churches, too. We’re so used to broadcasting—posting, preaching, putting out content—but not really engaging in real conversations. I remember reading that North Point Church tries to use more question marks than periods on social media, just to encourage dialogue. But most of the time, it’s just announcements and sermons, not actual listening.Yeah, it’s like we’re all talking at each other, but nobody’s really hearing what’s being said. Reminds me of that story from the sermon video—about the guy at the restaurant who kept asking the same question, not listening to the answer. It gets awkward fast when you’re not really listening. Sunshine, you ever have one of those moments at church?Oh, for sure. Okay, so, this was a couple years ago at a church potluck. I was helping organize the food, and someone came up and asked if there were any gluten-free options. I was distracted, half-listening, and just pointed them to the dessert table. Turns out, everything there had gluten. They came back looking so confused, and I realized I hadn’t actually listened to their question. It was embarrassing, but it taught me a lesson—if I’d just paused and really listened, I could’ve saved them some trouble. It’s a small thing, but it matters.That’s a great example. And it’s not just about food allergies, right? It’s about making people feel seen and heard. Whether it’s your spouse, your kids, or someone at church, active listening can change the whole dynamic. I mean, I’ve had my wife ask me, “James, what did I just say?” and I’m like, “Uh… something about dinner?” Not my best moment. But I’m working on it.We all are. And I think that’s the point—listening isn’t just a skill for leaders or pastors. It’s for everyone. It’s how we build real relationships, in church and out. And honestly, it’s how we reflect God’s love, like we talked about in earlier episodes. You can’t love your neighbor if you’re not listening to them.That’s a perfect segue, Sunshine, because I want to talk about listening in pastoral care. Daniel Schramm, who’s a hospital chaplain, wrote about how listening is this overlooked discipline in ministry. He said pastors are trained to preach, but not really to listen. And I get that—when you’re in a hospital room, or sitting with someone who’s grieving, sometimes you feel helpless. You want to say something wise, but what people really need is just someone to listen.Exactly. And Schramm points out that active listening is about empathy—setting aside your own agenda and really entering into someone else’s world. It’s not easy. It takes discipline. He talks about things like honest eye contact, attentive body language, and just being patient. Sometimes, the best thing you can say is, “I can’t imagine what you’re going through, but I’m here to listen.”Yeah, and you know, I’ve seen that firsthand. Back when I was driving the church bus, there was this one teen who always sat in the back, headphones on, hoodie up, you know the type. One day, I just asked him how he was doing, and instead of jumping in with advice, I just listened. He started opening up about stuff at home, school, all of it. I didn’t have any magic words, but just being there, listening, it made a difference. Sometimes, that’s all people need—a safe space to talk.That’s so true. And it’s easy to forget, especially in church settings, that people don’t always want a sermon or a Bible verse right away. Sometimes, quoting scripture or trying to “fix” things can actually make people feel more alone. Like Schramm said, the widow at the funeral didn’t need a theology lesson—she needed someone to listen to her grief. It’s about presence, not platitudes.Right. And it’s not just about what you say, but how you listen. Eye contact, body language, even your tone of voice. I mean, I’m not always the best at this—sometimes I get distracted, or I want to jump in with my own story. But I’m learning. And honestly, it’s humbling. Like, you gotta let go of your own need to be the expert, or to have all the answers.And it’s not just pastors, either. Anyone can practice this kind of listening. Whether you’re consoling a friend, handling a disagreement at church, or just talking with your kids. It’s about making space for people to share, without judgment or interruption. And sometimes, that means being comfortable with silence, or with not having a solution. Just being there is enough.Yeah, and you know, I think that’s something we could all use more of—just slowing down, putting away the phone, and really listening. It’s not flashy, but it’s powerful. And it’s a way to show God’s love in action, like we talked about in our episode on love and community. Sometimes, the most compassionate thing you can do is just listen.So, let’s bring it back to scripture. James 1:19-27 says, “Let everyone be quick to listen, slow to speak, slow to anger.” I love that. It’s so countercultural, especially today when everyone’s shouting over each other. But the Bible says listening is foundational for spiritual health and unity. If we’re not listening, we’re missing the point.Yeah, and it goes further, right? It’s not just about hearing, but doing. James says if you’re just a hearer and not a doer, it’s like looking in the mirror and forgetting what you look like. That’s a wild image. I mean, what’s the point of hearing God’s word, or someone else’s pain, if you don’t do anything about it?Exactly. And the passage ends with this: “Religion that is pure and undefiled before God is to care for orphans and widows in their distress.” In other words, real faith shows up in action—especially for those who are overlooked or hurting. Listening is the first step, but it has to lead to caring, to doing something. Otherwise, it’s just noise.That’s so true. And I think, like we talked about in our episode on God’s love in action, it’s not enough to just know the right things. You gotta live it out. And sometimes, that starts with a simple question. Sunshine, you mentioned something about using “Tell me about…” in your Bible study groups?Yeah! It’s one of my favorite tools. Instead of jumping in with advice or my own story, I’ll just say, “Tell me about what’s going on,” or “Tell me about how you’re feeling.” It opens the door for people to share more deeply. I’ve seen it transform group discussions—people feel safe, they open up, and real connection happens. It’s such a simple phrase, but it’s powerful. And honestly, it’s a way to practice what James is talking about—being quick to listen, slow to speak.I love that. And I think that’s a good place to wrap up for today. Listening isn’t just a nice idea—it’s a biblical command, and it’s essential for real community. Whether you’re a leader, a parent, or just a friend, being present and listening can change lives. And hey, we’re all still learning. I know I am.Me too, James. Thanks for sharing your stories—and for listening to mine. And thanks to everyone tuning in. We hope this episode encourages you to listen a little more deeply this week, whether it’s to God, to others, or even to yourself.Alright, that’s it for this episode of Shutter the Dark Shorts. We’ll be back soon with more conversations about faith, life, and growing together. Sunshine, always a pleasure.Always, James. Take care, everyone. See you next time!

Episodes

The Power of Listening